Kohler Command 27HP

[bgsengine]

This engine has a module that is bolted to the top of the shroud.It has several wires connected to it one being green,one black,one yellow, and one red.I assume it is the smart spark system as it has this module.



Glenn

Have you looked at the wiring diagram in that service manual you were looking at? smart spark module has 7 wires coming out of it Black, Red, White, Brown (2 one to each coil) , yellow, pink - Yellow and pink go one to each coil, black is ground, red and white are power supply from switch and start sense circuits.

There's also a test procedure for the ASAM and DSAM , both make mention of those 7 (or more) wires.

Not sure where KE4 got that info from in regards to it being a DSAI but Kohler parts lookup shows that model and spec as having a 24-584-27-S module which according to the manual is a DSAM - so I would tend to say the wiring colors you are seeing, you may be looking at only part of the harness - Often the diagram calling for white may be a green wire at the further end. In any case, correctly testing the module itself requires the specialized tester from Kohler, Though, there IS a very simple test method to *check* if it is actually advancing timing correctly - but again will need a specialized tool (timing light)

But again, I think one should go back to the basics - pull the flywheel and make *SURE* the key is not sheared, then torque it *correctly* to specs. - also double check your spark plugs, and very importantly - the gaps. try a power balance test to identify whether the issue is happening on just one cylinder (in which case it is not the SAM module) or both


Make sure the module is powered up - if it loses power OR ground

[bl8tant]

I may be way off base here, but the OP posted compression numbers of 130psi. That's kinda low. Service manual calls for 160psi+++. I bet a leak-down would show leaky valves. Low compression = lower power = sluggish engine. Just a suggestion. I chased an "ignition issue" on a 27hp that turned into a valve job. But that engine was hard to start and sluggish to rev. Mowed "OK" until taxed by heavy grass or steep hills.

[KE4AVB]

Not sure where KE4 got that info from in regards to it being a DSAI but Kohler parts lookup shows that model and spec as having a 24-584-27-S module which according to the manual is a DSAM

It actually came from the Kohler Plus Website for that serial numbered engine. It where I was researching the engine setup for the Exmark spec engine. The info was in the parts list following the supersession.

They were also showing a DSAI conversion kit possibly being used that looks very similar to the Smart Spark setup.

It also referred me to the CH740-0045 setup which used the DSAM with a possible conversion involved there too for that serial number range. That why I was asking to which ignition coils were used.

Now I don't know if I can even trust the Kohler Plus website for accurate info.

I just crawl back inside the JD M665 engine that I am working on. But don't pull too many hairs out guys.

[bgsengine]

Not sure where KE4 got that info from in regards to it being a DSAI but Kohler parts lookup shows that model and spec as having a 24-584-27-S module which according to the manual is a DSAM

It actually came from the Kohler Plus Website for that serial numbered engine. It where I was researching the engine setup for the Exmark spec engine. The info was in the parts list following the supersession.

They were also showing a DSAI conversion kit possibly being used that looks very similar to the Smart Spark setup.

It also referred me to the CH740-0045 setup which used the DSAM with a possible conversion involved there too for that serial number range. That why I was asking to which ignition coils were used.

Now I don't know if I can even trust the Kohler Plus website for accurate info.

I just crawl back inside the JD M665 engine that I am working on. But don't pull too many hairs out guys.

Hmm Interesting.. I would tend to trust the kohlerplus site over the ARI parts lookup software, which HAS been known (MANY MANY MANY times, to my great frustration!) to be dead WRONG, screwed up, and buggy as heck. and which I happened to be looking at on partstree under the model-spec posted earlier..

Definitely would want to find out from the O.P. as to what coils are in it - an just how many wires are coming off the "SAM" box - if there's only the 4 he mentioned by color, then it ain't DSAM, and parts lookup is wrong - I can find no reference to a 4 wire module for DSAI DSAM and ASAM got 7 wires/circuits coming off them .. so the whole thing's still confusing Will have to take another look at the kohler plus lookups when I get to the shop and either have to agree with you and call partstree's lookup wrong, or possibly you typoed on a spec number or got an SV instead of CV?

[Deere2me]

This engine has a module that is bolted to the top of the shroud.It has several wires connected to it one being green,one black,one yellow, and one red.I assume it is the smart spark system as it has this module.



Glenn

At this point I have no Idea what the fluck he's workin with.
One way to tell if DSAI, is the DSAI coils do not have an adjustment ( no slot in the laminations) for the flywheel gap, which is waaay bigger than .012 more like .125 or so.
That sounds like the gov. control unit for an electronic governor setup, of which your numbers say you got. I ain't never messed with one so........

[bgsengine]

I agree - gonna have to positively identify the system in use - check if any (and what color) wires come from that control box and connect TO THE COILS - if the control connects to the coils (one wire to each coil) it'd have to be a DSAM , if not, then DSAI , and they had problems with DSAI failures hence the update kit.

[G Archer]

I checked the wires on the module and there are seven total wires.White,green,yellow,red,pink,and 2 brown wires.yellow wire goes to one coil along with a brown wire.Pink wire goes to the other coil along with the other brown wire.Number on the coil is24-584-15.Number on the module on the shroud is 24-5847-31. Hope this helps.I checked flywheel key and it is ok.


Thanks,Glenn

[bgsengine]

I checked the wires on the module and there are seven total wires.White,green,yellow,red,pink,and 2 brown wires.yellow wire goes to one coil along with a brown wire.Pink wire goes to the other coil along with the other brown wire.Number on the coil is24-584-15.Number on the module on the shroud is 24-5847-31. Hope this helps.I checked flywheel key and it is ok.


Thanks,Glenn

OK then you definitely have a DSAM module there, or ASAM - You'd need a timing light, or the kohler SAM module tester to verify whether or not it is a timing issue.. its all explained in service manual.

[KE4AVB]

Thanks Glenn for the info. At least we now know which ignition system they have installed on that engine which is different than original setup per the IPL on Kohler's website and that an upgrade was applied to that engine. Forgive me but we needed make sure what system you were working with as there are several versions out there. Sometimes you can not just depend on the IPL's to be 100% accurate. This is especially true when things just don't seem right when first hand info varies from the published info.

I personally prefer know the correct system when comes to the microprocessor controlled systems as tests can be different. It also helps make sure you get the correct parts without guessing as mixing components here can cause system problems. With the color code and the module number it shows the system is the digital version (DSAM). The coil number 24-584-15 has been superceded to 24-584-36S and the control module is now 24-584-73S. With this info it is definitely the Smart Spark system and not the DSAI converted system.

Thanks for bearing with me. Hopefully now we got everybody on the same page and we can be of more help.

[KE4AVB]

And thanks BGS for bearing with me too. Just had to make sure we all were looking at the same info. Disinformation can cause problems and I rather get things right as it can be costly with the wrong information. This is just a good example of how different sources has different information which is a good reason to double check everything before testing and ordering parts.