starter solenoid

[38racing]

I am working on a gifted MTD model 696. Had been sitting and no history. Got to cranking test and all I got was the solenoid click. Battery good as I just pulled from another unit and also adding booster made no difference. On tractor test showed not getting 12v out of solenoid secondary. It does click both by key and jumper to small post. I need to boot directly to starter to confirm the problem is where I think but headed inside. But meanwhile I took solenoid off for bench test using booster pack. Booster has 12.97 volts but I only see 12.66 on solenoid out. I had a new ignition solenoid and same test on it shows 12.77. And I have a new 'snowplow' solenoid used for switching the electric hydraulic pump on a snowplow. Testing it I got the full 12.97 volts passed through and I noted that there is no 'click' when it energized. Anyone know how these work internally compared to standard relay. Wonder if good option for the mower?

[bobodu]

I think the plow unit is heavier duty...maybe even constant use rated. It'll work fine on your motor,but you might wanna save that expensive unit and just get one for a FORD.

[38racing]

Actually got the plow one cheap somewhere. Had interesting test today. I put on the new ford type. Test cranked it a couple times with plugs out. Cranked fine so I installed the plugs.then I crank it with plugs in. Cranks ok so I turn key off and it keeps on cranking.minor panic and I make wrong choice and try to disconnect negative battery terminal. Then I think to pull lead off small solenoid tab.keeps on cranking. So back to battery terminal. Now with dead battery I removed starter cable from solenoid and set up a power pack with on/off as power source.I then measured voltage on starter terminal while putting key to start and back. Got the 12 and 0 as I should. So I reconnect starter and test again. Worked twice and third time kept on cranking.

[smallen]

if you have 2 small terminals, check each terminal for a S and I marked next to each terminal, if so its wrong solenoid, contact rating may be lower than needed causing contacts to stick

[38racing]

if you have 2 small terminals, check each terminal for a S and I marked next to each terminal, if so its wrong solenoid, contact rating may be lower than needed causing contacts to stick

1 small terminal.supposed to be ignition solenoid.

[Arkie]

It's common for the MTD solenoids to go bad. They are kinda wimpy and OEM are overpriced.

I've had good luck buying these recently from ebay
**CLEARANCE PRICE** 33-335 Solenoid 3-Post equal/ MTD 725-1426 1-8817
They are the 3 terminal type at $8 with free shipping.

The new ford solenoid you installed should have worked ok, it's heavier duty and usually cheaper in price as compared to the lawn mtd lawn tractor types. (your ford unit is hanging on (sticking). Most of the standard ford solenoids can be used to replace the MTD 3 terminal type starter solenoids, but if yours requires a 4 terminal lawn tractor solenoid, you need what is termed a Isolated base ford type solenoid. (this means the 4th terminal is isolated (not grounded) to the solenoid base. (the 4 terminal is usually is connected to or thru the safety switches) You also have keep a heads up when installing solenoids, especially the ford type, but generally all starter solenoids. The ford types and some others have one lock nut close to the stud terminal's base on the terminal stud bolts, If you loosen this single locknut or allow the small or larger stud bolts to rotate going inside a solenoid (or starter) when installing or removing the wiring the solenoid is usually ruined internally or it's life shortened. When installing the connecting wires to a solenoid I do not use a socket wrench, I use open end wrenches so as I can watch and keep from turning the solenoid studs. (sometimes this requires the use of the small thin type ignition wrenches on the bottom lock stud. If the stud turns going inside the solenoid it usually ruins and solenoid or shortens it's life. I had a guy bring me 4 of the new Ford type solenoids and he wanted to know what he was doing wrong installing them. He was twisting (rotating) the studs using a socket wrench and the stud was turning inside the solenoid and ruining the NEW solenoids internally. Some Ford type solenoids come with only one nut on the small terminal studs because Ford uses PUSH on terminal connectors, not ring terminals and if you remove this single locknut to install a terminal wire and the terminal rotates when installing it will ruin the solenoid internally, usually.
I suspect your eq. will operate ok if you will install a NEW correct type solenoid and make sure all your terminal are clean. I also use a box or open end wrench when removing and installing starter terminal wires, paying attention that I'm not allowing the bolts to rotate that's going inside a starter.

[38racing]

This is the one I tried.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Fuse ... /8277766.p

I have a supplier that has this one which matches oem number for $8.
Just have to find some other stuff to order to offset the shipping cost

[Arkie]

This is the one I tried.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Fuse ... /8277766.p

I have a supplier that has this one which matches oem number for $8.
Just have to find some other stuff to order to offset the shipping cost

That appears to be the heavy duty type. You can see the back-up nuts on the studs that I mentioned aboue that locks the stud bolts in place. If the studs turn when tightening the connections the solenoid will usually be ruined, even on the big ones after the relay has operated few times the big contact inside will weld itself to the pitted mating contact or not make contact. The older models could be taken apart and the large copper washer inside could be reversed when it clicked with no contact being made. I've taken that type apart by grinding off most of the crimped side piece and repairing the inside when I need the eq ASAP. (solenoid plunger rusted internally and no click but coil good. (they are not waterproof)
The one I mentioned from flea bay is $8 free shipping but not as heavy duty as yours and it's not rainproof and kinda wimpy, but OEM MTD type. MTD= Maintenance Today Daily

[38racing]

Can't find it right now but I read a post on some forum that had electrical issues and it was suggested to test starter draw although at that point engine was cranking. So now I'm wondering if I have a starter current over draw. I put the snowplow solenoid on it. I set up with the power back with the switch just in case. I turn the key to start and it cranks. I turn the key to off, it still cranks so I turn the power off. I disconnect starter wire so I can test solenoid. Now it won't pass any voltage and of course there is no click because it never clicked when it did pass voltage. So I am thinking maybe the starter draw is either melting contacts together to keep on cranking and then burning so no current will flow on second attempt. I think the ford style one was still passing voltage but would keep cranking. Maybe I'll throw a known good starter on it and try the ford solenoid again until I get a new solenoid to try. I meant to put in other post my suppliers type. it was
https://www.bantasaw.com/catalog/viewpr ... ?i=&p=1337
I had ruled out the key switch since on the first incident it kept cranking with the solenoid small terminal lead removed. I guess I could do future test by just using a jumper wire to the small post before trying with key.

[Arkie]

You did not mention engine type on the mtd. some 646 series have a briggs twin and the starter current max no load on bench test is around 35-40 amps. You might consider pulling the spark plug/plugs on the engine and take a starter current draw test on the existing starter. I use a clamp on meter (UEI DL 49) for user friendly testing of starter current load testing. You have to keep a heads up when using a UEI DL49 for automotive or large equipment DC current tests because if the current exceeds 400 amps (due to locked engine or shorted starter) the tester acts erratic because it's auto ranging full scale has been exceeded, and the tester will briefly read full scale then revert back to low amps which is misleading and dangerous situation if you are not aware of such. (battery may even explode due to your unknown very high amps and the tester not indicating short circuit amps)
The mtd solenoids I think are rated at around 80 amps and the Ford type solenoids are 100 or more. I've seen used ford starter solenoids pass 300-400 amps on a stalled bad starter with a group 27 battery and the contacts not stick.

It's not uncommon for the mtd type solenoids to do all kinds of strange things, (click, stick, no click then click, etc) but the Ford types are normally real reliable. Average price for NEW Ford type solenoid is $10, and you probably also know this one, but you have to keep a heads up because some automotive stores are $40 area for a Ford solenoid and you can get the shaft along with the solenoid and no returns for electrical components.
I could be wrong AGAIN, but I still suspect you just need a NEW solenoid and still suggest the Ford type, especially for testing.