Kohler Starting Problem

[jdbark1952]

I have a Troybilt riding mower with a Kohler 20 hp SV600S spec number SV600-3220.

It died on me while mowing, It will run if I am squirting starter fluid in it so I replaced the fuel filter, still didn't run without squirting starter fluid. I checked the solenoid on the bottom of the bowl and it was shot so I replaced it, along with the needed gaskets, still not running, as it sat I had forgot to turn off the petcock valve I had installed a couple years ago because it started flooding the crankcase with gas, the crankcase did flood out again with gas, so I am pretty sure gas is flowing into the carb. I am going to drain the o8il and put fresh in and give it another try, I was wondering if I am missing something here that is simple, or not simple. The wire going to the solenoid looks good, I have not yet tested it for juice.

[Deere2me]

I have a Troybilt riding mower with a Kohler 20 hp SV600S spec number SV600-3220.

It died on me while mowing, It will run if I am squirting starter fluid in it so I replaced the fuel filter, still didn't run without squirting starter fluid. I checked the solenoid on the bottom of the bowl and it was shot so I replaced it, along with the needed gaskets, still not running, as it sat I had forgot to turn off the petcock valve I had installed a couple years ago because it started flooding the crankcase with gas, the crankcase did flood out again with gas, so I am pretty sure gas is flowing into the carb. I am going to drain the o8il and put fresh in and give it another try, I was wondering if I am missing something here that is simple, or not simple. The wire going to the solenoid looks good, I have not yet tested it for juice.

So check the dam thing! And the fuse/s. Then go in and fix the leaking inlet needle/seat.

[KE4AVB]

I have a Troybilt riding mower with a Kohler 20 hp SV600S spec number SV600-3220.

How did you determine the fuel solenoid was bad? They do fill with crud and become inoperative but most time they just need a good cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner. Btw the fuel solenoid only shut the fuel flow to the main nozzle/jet assembly just to prevent excess fuel being suck in during shut down preventing the load after burn sound.

It also sound like the carburetor needs a good cleaning too. With leaking fuel the float needle is probably bad. Some are rubber tip version and other are an all metal needle wit ha rubber seat.

Your new solenoid should be making clicking noise as turn on and off the ignition switch if it working and that carburetor is grounded properly.

[bgsengine]

If you have fuel flooding the engine and leaking into the oil, then you have a leaking float needle or a float that won't float , go ahead and test the connector for getting 12 volts when the key switch is turned to "on" (and make sure the other pin has a good ground) if it isn't getting 12v at all times, (even during start/cranking) then you'd have the symptoms described.. It is quite possible you have a bad key switch (Have seen this a few times) that is intermittently failing to supply 12 volts to the solenoid - try it in the ROM position , if you find 12V while cranking, it should start, then back to run position, it might stall out - symptoms of a bad key switch.

[bgsengine]

They do fill with crud and become inoperative but most time they just need a good cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner..

These *specific* solenoids have had a bad history of heat related issues - they get hot and quit working - have replaced several dozen of them, and actually have a tractor that came in a couple days ago with the same problems as noted above - runs until it gets hot and then quits.. had good spark when it quit so prelim diagnosis is the failed solenoid - Kohler is well aware of that issue and have issued a updated solenoid repair kit for those carburetors that includes a redesigned heat shield, and replacement hardware, re-wiring kit and the like. cleaning them is not a solution - they *ARE* clean , usually - the problem is in the solenoid coil and core itself.

[KE4AVB]

They do fill with crud and become inoperative but most time they just need a good cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner..

These *specific* solenoids have had a bad history of heat related issues - they get hot and quit working - have replaced several dozen of them, and actually have a tractor that came in a couple days ago with the same problems as noted above - runs until it gets hot and then quits.. had good spark when it quit so prelim diagnosis is the failed solenoid - Kohler is well aware of that issue and have issued a updated solenoid repair kit for those carburetors that includes a redesigned heat shield, and replacement hardware, re-wiring kit and the like. cleaning them is not a solution - they *ARE* clean , usually - the problem is in the solenoid coil and core itself.

Thanks Brian informing me of this as I haven't seen any here with this type of problem. I have only seen dirty ones here and have yet to run failure of the type you describing with solenoids.

[jdbark1952]

After I posted the question I did go and check the solenoid wire, it has power to it when the key is in the on position.

The original solenoid when I pulled it out I simply pushed the plunger down and it flat can not be pulled back out in the extended position. I was aware of the thing just being there to prevent back firing on shut down. I had also spoke with a long time parts man at a local shop and he told me that the thing would prevent the motor from running at all if it is stuck in the kill position. I had considered just cutting the old one off and putting it back in to seal the bottom of the bowl.

I had taken the mower into the only repair shop in my town (the parts guy is in another town) for another problem a couple years ago, his solution to the leaking into the crank case was to just put the stop cock in the fuel line.I refuse to take it back to him.

The new solenoid has the heat shield, before I got that I was already planning a heat shield fabrication, was happy to see the factory designed shield.

Bsengine, I can get it to start and run as long as I am squirting starter fluid in and the key is in the start position, I am pretty sure i is a fuel problem. I too have no problem with spark, as I mentioned it runs with starter fluid just fine.

KE4AVB, The original solenoid when I pulled it out I simply pushed the plunger down and it flat can not be pulled back out in the extended position.

Dere2me, I figured as soon as I posted I did not check the wire somebody would give me grief over it so I went out and checked it. I will take your advice and a work on the needle valve as well.

The motor has what looks like a vacuum operated valve/fuel pump the fuel line goes through, I'll check that out as well, probably just order one and replace it. Damned thing just has too many gadgets on it.

[wristpin]

I've had those solenoids appearing to work correctly when held out of the carb against a good earth but suffering from a high earth resistance when installed in the carb. With the solenoid energised a voltage drop check between the solenoid body and the battery earth will show if this is the case. Hearing the solenoid click is not a reliable guide to the needle being fully retracted.

[bgsengine]

I've had those solenoids appearing to work correctly when held out of the carb against a good earth but suffering from a high earth resistance when installed in the carb. With the solenoid energised a voltage drop check between the solenoid body and the battery earth will show if this is the case. Hearing the solenoid click is not a reliable guide to the needle being fully retracted.

Good point. It also bears mentioning that anything intermittent such as a failing key switch or loose wire connectors somewhere can cause the solenoid to quit working - Had one I wrote up a diagnostic dilemma over on the old PERR forum describing that exact issue, as some of you may recall. - Bad key switch was intermittently losing contact and losing power to the solenoid.

[jdbark1952]

I've had those solenoids appearing to work correctly when held out of the carb against a good earth but suffering from a high earth resistance when installed in the carb. With the solenoid energised a voltage drop check between the solenoid body and the battery earth will show if this is the case. Hearing the solenoid click is not a reliable guide to the needle being fully retracted.

The original solenoid relied on a ground though the carb, the replacement solenoid has a ground wire, mounted directly to the block, as well as a hot wire.